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  1. #1691
    AppleCider's Avatar
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    By now, Law is in the same tier as Doflamingo imo

  2. #1692
    Senior Member Alibaba Saluja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Joestar View Post
    it was enough to knock him out after he had been cut, stabbed, gamma knifed, and hit several times by gear 4 luffy, I doubt if he just straight up used it at the start of him going gear 4 it would have KOed him
    And it was a Luffy who has been running and fighting the whole day against all kinds of opponents and who got emptied of Haki and energy a few seconds before so yeah ... Doflamingo just can't take King Kong gun it's just like that.


    wich means even Dressrosa Luffy was already stronger than Doflamingo by a fair margin if it wasn't for the plot.

    so comparing Doflamingo to Luffy now ? dammit he's a fodder to Luffy.
    Last edited by Alibaba Saluja; Sep 28th '19 at 11:55 PM.

  3. #1693
    Joseph Joestar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AppleCider View Post
    By now, Law is in the same tier as Doflamingo imo
    Yeeeeeeeee
    Quote Originally Posted by Alibaba Saluja View Post
    And it was a Luffy who has been running and fighting the whole day against all kinds of opponents and who got emptied of Haki and energy a few seconds before so yeah ... Doflamingo just can't take King Kong gun it's just like that.


    wich means even Dressrosa Luffy was already stronger than Doflamingo by a fair margin if it wasn't for the plot.

    so comparing Doflamingo to Luffy now ? dammit he's a fodder to Luffy.
    By the time Luffy fought Doffy Doffys internal organs were literally freshly stitched together after having his insides completely rearranged. Luffy fought some people but sustained no major injuries they aren't comparable. You have no facts or feats to say he could have one shot Doffy.

    No. Doffy fought against Sanji Law twice had to take an attack or two from fujitoria and let's not forget while he was fighting Luffy he was also using bird cage an attack capable of destroying all of dresrossa. Luffy lost all his haki and would have died without help after using gear 4 the first time.

    Fodder? Considering he couldn't beat him in a fair fight there is no way he's fodder. Luffy is stronger now but by a single tier at most

    Spoiler!

  4. #1694
    Senior Member Alibaba Saluja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Joestar View Post
    Yeeeeeeeee


    By the time Luffy fought Doffy Doffys internal organs were literally freshly stitched together after having his insides completely rearranged. Luffy fought some people but sustained no major injuries they aren't comparable. You have no facts or feats to say he could have one shot Doffy.

    No. Doffy fought against Sanji Law twice had to take an attack or two from fujitoria and let's not forget while he was fighting Luffy he was also using bird cage an attack capable of destroying all of dresrossa. Luffy lost all his haki and would have died without help after using gear 4 the first time.

    Fodder? Considering he couldn't beat him in a fair fight there is no way he's fodder. Luffy is stronger now but by a single tier at most
    Baaaaaaaaaah Luffy use his Haki all day and the onlu thing Doflamingo coud do is wait for Luffy's Haki to end up in G4 ... sooooooooooo It's kinda obvious here just put 1 and 1 toghether.

    fact of the matter is Doflamingo is punching bag/fodder to G4 every day , can't even fight against it. that's a FACT. Undeniable fact.

    I don't know why people want to overhype him (yeah i remmember the Doflamingo stringer than Kaido thered here) but Doflamingo is outdated , Luffy was already stronger than him by the beginning of the new world since he had G4 , now a stronger G4 , stronger CoO and stronger CoA ? yeah , he would fodderize him as he was nothing.

    and that thing about argans it's useless to keep talking about it and trying to put it as main argument , it had 0 effect on anything in the fighting , didn't affect his speed , didn't affect his power didn't affect anything in his fighting ability and he was done repearing them before the King Kong Gun anyways ..
    Last edited by Alibaba Saluja; Sep 29th '19 at 03:45 PM.

  5. #1695
    Senior Member AndrewtheAmericanDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alibaba Saluja View Post
    The thing is from the moment Luffy set foot on Dressrosa he had the ability to just tomp Doflamingo , one shot him .. but that wouldn't be good story telling so plot let all the dressrosa arc happen (just like Hody , just like Blueno ...) you know , G4 Boundman King Kong gun that went trought Doflamingo's strongest move and destroyed him ... but for story purpose that was delayed until the end.

    That moment of Luffy getting help from Gats and others should never have happened if Luffy just went in full power from the start like he did against Cracker for example ... Cracker who actually can fight against G4 while Doflamingo was a punching bag.



    I'm pretty sure it's plot when Luffy has the ability to one shot Doflamingo since the moment he left Ruskaina island but only uses it at the very end.
    Even now, Doflamingo has some of the highest endurance feats in the series. To say Luffy could oneshot him just because he saved his strongest move till the end is baseless. What do u have to show that Doflamingo would get wiped with it? Once again, he took Law stabbing him, electrocution, and most importantly--getting his internal organs sliced (this is the big one)--before a G4 beatdown. I can't link manga pages now, but in chapter 785, Doflamingo even blocks a G4 hit with awakening, and draws blood when one offwhite hits Luffy during King Riku's speech. Doflamingo may lose a short G4 battle but he will win the war. At least when talking Dressrosa Luffy. U r concerned only with the optics. If u can outlast someone's timer, it doesnt matter if they can knock u around.

    Spoiler!

  6. #1696
    Senior Member desa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Overhaul View Post

    The one I lost the will to debate further because of previous debates about the same topic.
    It must be tiresome to handle the list. I just used to debate it and I got tired. Do you still read My hero? Your Avattar looks pretty good.

    Doflamingo being in the same tier as Katakuri and Luffy
    I am the restrain guy that think to many people are to high but even I think they should be in the same tier. I was on the fence a long time but G4 decided it. If doffly was completely destroyed by G4 I would agree but he managed to hang on long enough and push Luffy far enough that with the gamma with Gamma knife they should be together.

    Katakuri has a glass jaw and ok attack. Luffy wear him down on time and speed. While Doffly don't have the speed he does have the longevity and he can use the awakenning to land a hit at some point. He can hand in there.

    I have pointed that it makes no sense putting him in the same tier as Law (moving Mingo one tier down) and that it creates problems if we try to create a tier in between.
    I would say Zoro should be a tier bellow LawAwonb't happenb I know). Doffly isn't up because he beat Law. He is there because he can hand with G4 and similarily powerful people. He rose to the challenge. Law hasn't proven that.
    Another was that some people find it insulting to have Rayleigh one tier below Kizaru, for reasons previously discussed, and one of the arguments is that since he can use the new level of armament he is so much stronger than Luffy who couldn't. Nevermind Sentomaru and Granpda Hyo. And nevermind Luffy and others having fought opponents with haki stronger than his in the past (Satori, Ohm, Marigold, Sandersonia, etc) and bested them, proving to be stronger. Another argument is that since Rayleigh wiped the floor with G4 Luffy in an anime filler that makes it cannon
    There is no new feats for Ray. It makes no sense to move him. He didn't recently fight admiral and do better or anything. We just learned more about him.

    I do appreciate the restraint even if it won't last.


    Quote Originally Posted by AppleCider View Post
    @Overhaul thoughts on Sabo for Upper Top (he severely injured Fujitora) and Rocks for Summit Tier (it required Roger and Garp to defeat him)?
    We saw a 1vs 1 against Fuji and he easily dominated. We know nothing about what happened at Marijoa. It could have been 4 vs 1 or they trick hinm into an explsion or wathever. NO REASON TO REVERSE PREVIOUS RULING.

    I wouldn't mind putting Rocks anywhere but it's like Roger. Why bother when we have nothing to reference it to. Also everything Overhaul said about not knowing past level and match ups.

  7. #1697
    Overhaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AppleCider View Post
    i thought they were burns? He fought an angry Sabo and Revs and got injured!

    Rocks was Roger's main enemy though. He's strong enough to lead a crew with 3 future yonko! And a likely reason for the current Kaido-Big Mom alliance

    Also Rocks was the last step before Roger became Pirate King?
    I saw some bandages, hard to know if they were from burns, cuts or blunt attacks. We don't know what happened. We don't know if Issho and Ryokugou fought the 4 (or were they 5?) Revs by themselves while worrying and trying to protect the lives of those in Reverie (Celestial Dragons and what not) and worrying about not using too much power as such to not destroy Mariejois, like Issho said they could if they clashed iirc.
    If both admirals fought the revs, they were most likely restrained and couldn't use their full power, while also being concerned with everyone else's safety and doing damage control.

    Rocks made a temporary alliance with 3 future yonkos. We don't know how strong they were back then, we don't know how strong Rock was either. Was he stronger than all 3 of them? Than each of them individually? We don't know that.

    What we know is that the 3 current Yonkos are much stronger than they were in the past, and that Roger at the time he died was quite likely to be on the same level as those 3 Current Yonkos.

    So if we go by the logic that Roger = Kaido, and that Young Kaido was weaker but Roger was not that weak, than we do not really know how strong Rocks was, do we, he could have been as strong as Young Kaido or stronger, but was he as strong as Roger? Do we have anything that could prove it? Did Roger solo Rocks in a one on one? Was it Garp who did that? What really happened in that war? We just know Roger and Garp's forces fought Rocks and his allies. We don't know what kind of matchups or fights there were, or if there were short scuffles like in Marineford with some main fights going around instead. And we know by Marineford's example, that even though the Marines won, Whitebeard was stronger than their strongest.

    So to set it as an example, Roger and Garp won, but was Rocks indivudally weaker? Stronger? We don't

    Quote Originally Posted by desa View Post
    It must be tiresome to handle the list. I just used to debate it and I got tired. Do you still read My hero? Your Avattar looks pretty good.



    I am the restrain guy that think to many people are to high but even I think they should be in the same tier. I was on the fence a long time but G4 decided it. If doffly was completely destroyed by G4 I would agree but he managed to hang on long enough and push Luffy far enough that with the gamma with Gamma knife they should be together.

    Katakuri has a glass jaw and ok attack. Luffy wear him down on time and speed. While Doffly don't have the speed he does have the longevity and he can use the awakenning to land a hit at some point. He can hand in there.


    I would say Zoro should be a tier bellow LawAwonb't happenb I know). Doffly isn't up because he beat Law. He is there because he can hand with G4 and similarily powerful people. He rose to the challenge. Law hasn't proven that.

    There is no new feats for Ray. It makes no sense to move him. He didn't recently fight admiral and do better or anything. We just learned more about him.

    I do appreciate the restraint even if it won't last.



    We saw a 1vs 1 against Fuji and he easily dominated. We know nothing about what happened at Marijoa. It could have been 4 vs 1 or they trick hinm into an explsion or wathever. NO REASON TO REVERSE PREVIOUS RULING.

    I wouldn't mind putting Rocks anywhere but it's like Roger. Why bother when we have nothing to reference it to. Also everything Overhaul said about not knowing past level and match ups.
    Sometimes it can wear a man down, yes. Fresh arguments are good, but arguments that have been beaten to death stress me out because the same arguments are used and usually leads to nowhere.

    Yeah, I still read My Hero Academia. It's entertaining, has some good stuff.

    Thanks for your understanding and your calm and positive post. It's deeply appreciated
    Think you know about powerscaling?
    Then come to the Tier List Thread and prove it!!




  8. #1698
    Joseph Joestar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alibaba Saluja View Post
    Baaaaaaaaaah Luffy use his Haki all day and the onlu thing Doflamingo coud do is wait for Luffy's Haki to end up in G4 ... sooooooooooo It's kinda obvious here just put 1 and 1 toghether.

    fact of the matter is Doflamingo is punching bag/fodder to G4 every day , can't even fight against it. that's a FACT. Undeniable fact.

    I don't know why people want to overhype him (yeah i remmember the Doflamingo stringer than Kaido thered here) but Doflamingo is outdated , Luffy was already stronger than him by the beginning of the new world since he had G4 , now a stronger G4 , stronger CoO and stronger CoA ? yeah , he would fodderize him as he was nothing.

    and that thing about argans it's useless to keep talking about it and trying to put it as main argument , it had 0 effect on anything in the fighting , didn't affect his speed , didn't affect his power didn't affect anything in his fighting ability and he was done repearing them before the King Kong Gun anyways ..
    That Luffy fought Doffy while Doffy was heavily injured and Luffy was a bit fatigued and after 10 minutes Luffy couldn't KO Doffy and lost all his haki and lost the 1 v 1 there and needed assistance. Luffy lost the one v one and that's a fact.

    Luffy now wouldn't fodderize him at all. He would mid diff him (this is without his most recent training since no one knows how strong he is right at the moment). It would be one sided and Doffy couldn't seriously harm him but he'd still get in a shot or two and tank a few hits.

    It affects his durability. Doffy's biggest strength is his retarded durability. If Doffy didn't get cut, stabbed, and game knifed by Law he more than likely would have still been conscious post King Kong gun and probably would have killed Luffy

    Spoiler!

  9. #1699
    Overhaul's Avatar
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    We have no way to know for sure if a King Kong Gun on a fresh Doflamingo could take him out right off the bat or not. However, if it couldn't, then Luffy would have been left without energy and Doflamingo could take him out quite easily.

    How would it fail? If Doflamingo didn't try to tank it and dodged it instead, or if a fresh Doflamingo could tank it.

    We can't deny that Law involvement in the fight helped Luffy get the win. Nor can we deny that it got Doflamingo to a more even level to what Luffy was due to his previous fights. But alas, Doflamingo didn't need anyone to carry him and guard his back so that he could recover.

    Just like we can't deny Nami was a huge factor in Luffy defeating Cracker. Why didn't Luffy just use King Kong Gun right off the bat then? We did see him use G4, but what if King Kong Gun failed and he would be left weary and prone to be sliced to pickles by Cracker?

    Why didn't Luffy use Snakeman King Cobra right off the bat against Katakuri? You could argue it was because he wanted to progress his CoO and all, but he was risking the life of his crew on a gamble. Just like in his fight against Cracker and Doflamingo, Luffy had help and in this case, could escape and recover stamina in order to keep fighting. The key points in all this fights is that Luffy had to flee and recover his stamina one way or the other because he couldn't finish his enemies on a straight 1v1 fight, and this was done through situational help from outside factors.
    Last edited by Overhaul; Oct 1st '19 at 10:22 AM.
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  10. #1700
    AppleCider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Overhaul View Post
    We have no way to know for sure if a King Kong Gun on a fresh Doflamingo could take him out right off the bat or not. However, if it couldn't, then Luffy would have been left without energy and Doflamingo could take him out quite easily.

    How would it fail? If Doflamingo didn't try to tank it and dodged it instead, or if a fresh Doflamingo could tank it.

    We can't deny that Law involvement in the fight helped Luffy get the win. Nor can we deny that it got Doflamingo to a more even level to what Luffy was due to his previous fights. But alas, Doflamingo didn't need anyone to carry him and guard his back so that he could recover.

    Just like we can't deny Nami was a huge factor in Luffy defeating Cracker. Why didn't Luffy just use King Kong Gun right off the bat then? We did see him use G4, but what if King Kong Gun failed and he would be left weary and prone to be sliced to pickles by Cracker?

    Why didn't Luffy use Snakeman King Cobra right off the bat against Katakuri? You could argue it was because he wanted to progress his CoO and all, but he was risking the life of his crew on a gamble. Just like in his fight against Cracker and Doflamingo, Luffy had help and in this case, could escape and recover stamina in order to keep fighting. The key points in all this fights is that Luffy had to flee and recover his stamina one way or the other because he couldn't finish his enemies on a straight 1v1 fight, and this was done through situational help from outside factors.
    is Oden Top or Upper Top Tier? I think he's Upper Top if he injured Kaido which G4 Luffy failed to do.

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